Well… As I said above Matt didn’t really present any facts I wasn’t aware of. And speaking frankly ignored most of really interesting questions. I made my take on arguments of both sides very clear in the post, but that got largely ignored.

As usual.

It is so much more convenient and usual to try and twist me into stupid-person-who-hates-GPL-open-source-and-even-kittens rather than stick to what I really wrote in post.

It wasn’t my intention to have discussion under this post with Matt or at all. I merely had these thoughts boiling for some time and is there any more fitting place to put them in writing than my blog? :) Shouting is just collateral damage.

There is not a single argument against GPL on this page. If you don’t understand that – read damn post and 29 comments after it.

I expected you to participate in logical discussion, but apparently repeatedly saying that you are right (and everyone else must be dumb to not understand that) works for you better.

I am taking you seriously (or at least try to). If you are not willing to spend even this much effort I will just stop replying to your comments, even if that is against how I run my blog.

A blank text file… You can code without seeing any WordPress code??? I am not particularly interested why???

Devs are the ones that start with “blank txt files” and fill it with lousy code poor structure and redundant “functions” AKA frameworks…

I am sorry but how do you expect me to take your argument seriously!

When I open blank text file and write code for WordPress theme I neither “develop from” or “obtain from” WordPress. I can code without even seeing any of WP code, merely using API documentation.

How can I derive from code I don’t see?

I am still waiting for your answer is WP derivative of PHP? Is PHP in turn derivative of OS?

Have you ever really explored WP code-base, do you understand why backwards compatibility is an issue, or it exists!

I am not particularly interested why, I am interested how to deal with it. And it is rarely a pleasant process.

I can assure that sloppy codes by theme and plugin devs have nothing to do with WordPress!

Yeah, how kind of you to decide for all of WordPress developers. Wait, you don’t.

When official WP documentation contains wonderful instructions like Meh, I’m not going to tell you now. there is no wonder developers screw up.

Now thats out of the way read the GPL to understand how derivatives should be handled.

Have you ever really explored WP code-base, do you understand why backwards compatibility is an issue, or it exists!

I can assure that sloppy codes by theme and plugin devs have nothing to do with WordPress!

I missed the answer… So do you or do you not consider WP derivative of PHP? :)

Actually the GPL is quite clear on what it considers a derivative!

Quote please.

The WP code is simple for most part, I am not sure what you mean by hardly a marvel???

Simple?? I mean that it is messy, complicated, plagued by multiple layers of backwards compatibility and deprecated functions.

In the end it works, but I suspect that a lot of sloppy third party code is that way because it is pain to get it right with WordPress. Every little thing with WP can waste ton of time on how to do it in right way with poorly documented APIs.

It does not matter if WP is a derivative of PHP under the php licence it does not make a difference.

” GPL enforces many restrictions on what can and cannot be done with the licensed code. The PHP developers decided to release PHP under a much more loose license (Apache-style), to help PHP become as popular as possible.” http://www.php.net/license/index.php#faq-lic

I am not familiar with the linux licence so I cannot answer that questions sorry.

Actually the GPL is quite clear on what it considers a derivative!

The WP code is simple for most part, I am not sure what you mean by hardly a marvel???

Another fact is that when you add a function to a theme it executes pieces WP code and what you get is the results of the code… Without the WP code and the php compiler all I would be seeing is “”.

Is WP derivative of PHP? It does execute PHP functions and get results. WP won’t work without PHP.

It is the GPL that allows you to do this if it did not you would not be able to reuse a single line of that code for anything. It is the way code works, suggesting otherwise seems either irresponsible or uninformed.

So you think Linux is wrong in considering function calls as “normal use of kernel” and not establishing derivative work?

GPL establishes license inheritance for derivative works. Unfortunately what IS derivative work can be vague. GPL contains no definitions of such on top of weakly formulated that is to say, a work containing the Program or a portion of it.

I have looked at a lot of these themes they contain a lot of sloppy code that is not fit for redistribution or resale for that matter.

I must note that WP code is hardly marvel itself… :)

Your interpretation I cannot change that…

As it is the web today is filled with way too much noise and clutter, so when I say anything I try to be as direct and factual as possible not politically correct.

This is not the first time I have engaged you in this conversation and the like I said the GPL is clear on this matter and that is a fact!

Another fact is that when you add a function to a theme it executes pieces WP code and what you get is the results of the code… Without the WP code and the php compiler all I would be seeing is “”. It is the GPL that allows you to do this if it did not you would not be able to reuse a single line of that code for anything. It is the way code works, suggesting otherwise seems either irresponsible or uninformed.

“freedom to distribute copies of free software (and charge for this service if you wish), that you receive source code or can get it if you want it, that you can change the software or use pieces of it in new free programs….”

All of the themes I write for WP use a simple MVC structure and I do this for two reasons 1. Is the WordPress theme structure of including files is archaic, and does not allow you to reuse code.

2. I can truly separate my design and code from the WordPress core and in fact reuse it anywhere. It does not take much to do this.

I have looked at a lot of these themes they contain a lot of sloppy code that is not fit for redistribution or resale for that matter.

As for frameworks most of them contain WP function wrapped in more functions creating more bloat than innovation IMHO.

My biggest issue with the GPL is that it seems to promote free as beer more than it does Freedom to share but that is a whole other issue.

That said you can choose to delete this post if you wish, I would expect and have no problem with it.